**UPDATE** I keep bumping this post because so many of you have been away and otherwise-focused during the holidays, and I want most of my readers to see it at least once (for the polls at right).
~~
This is the last time I am going to add the disclaimer to any of my posts that you should do PT and you should acquire as much practical tactical experience from good trainers. It is such a fundamental, bedrock aspect of preparing yourself for potential disasters that I personally believe it is insulting as fuck-all to my readers to keep nagging them like schoolchildren, or tying a little string to your fingers so you'll remember to do your chores. Do PT that works for you. Get as much training from the best trainers possible, that works for you. Everybody reading this blog is a serious adult, and you know what you need to do without me nagging and insulting your intelligence by constantly re-stating the obvious.
With that little bit of nonsense out of the way, I have a simple few questions to pose.
With the understanding that everyone can improve their skillsets, I've set up a pair of polls at right.
The questions are simple.
If you had to go operational to defend your home & hearth in 10 minutes, do you trust your current level of:
- Two-Man & Four-Man Combat Team Skills
- Combatives/CQB Fighting Skills
- Comms Skills (local and long-range)
- Trauma Medical Skills
- The tech/Mech Skills of Breaking Shit
- Breaking Bad People on the down-low
- Setting-up an effective Intel Shop
- Getting out of Dodge after a Caper
Leave your Ego out of the equation. To help encourage that, I'll give you my answers in public.
Two-Man & Four-Man Combat Team Skills - This is my absolute weakest skill. I have always fought alone, never .mil style in a Buddy Team or Fire Team. I will get the mechanics, probably at Georgia Force on Force.
Combatives/CQB Fighting Skills - Yeah, I'm good to go on this one.
Comms Skills (local and long-range) - I need work here. I'm getting the bookwork in now, then I need to pay Sparks for as much of his knowledge as I can afford.
Trauma Medical Skills - I am as good as I am going to get. I'll usually keep you alive until we can get you to a real medic, provided God hasn't other plans for you.
The Tech/Mech Skills of Breaking Shit - I'm good to go here.
Breaking Bad People on the down-low - Yep, good to go.
Setting-up an effective Intel Shop - Some of you know some of my past in this area, some of you have seen me work in this arena, and some of you I may tell later. I'm no William Donovan, but few men ever could be...
Getting out of Dodge after a Caper - I've not been caught yet. But that is because I am a fine and upstanding Citizen and would never have need of testing such skills...
One final question, not on the polls. Feel free to answer in comments: Do you feel you are at least the fighting equal of a modern US Army Infantry Soldier or USMC Rifleman. I'm not asking about your physical prowess to compete with him on an endurance run or obstacle course. I'm asking - do you know as much about closing with and killing the enemy on the field of battle as today's USA/USMC Infantryman/Rifleman?
Kerodin
III
No. You are not on the same level as a current infantryman, and unless you drop your entire life for a year or more to train, practice, eat, live, and breath for the fight, then go out and get into a fight, kill, lose friends, and generally do nasty stuff, you won't be. Set realistic goals.
ReplyDeleteMatt: I can accept that answer, because obviously serving troops work daily to maintain top physical condition. But take "top physical condition" out of the equation. Let's say you've got a currently serving 1 year vet and a vet who served 3 years in combat about3-5 years ago. Obviously our older vet is going to be a bit more out-of-shape, and a few more aches and pains every morning.
DeleteBut drop the two into a firefight - don't you think the 3-year vet will make-up with experience what he has lost in physical sharpness?
I'm a combat veteran infantryman. I'm on your side. I teach, to the best of my ability, my own tribe, and anyone who asks to learn. Bless every man who wants to step up and do some kind of training, I don't mean to discourage, I want people training, I want men who are better today than they were yesterday. I just want everyone know that if you think your team is going to be on par with a USMC/US Army fire team, you are in for a rude surprise. What percentage of folks reading here are vets? How many guys are motivated but inexperienced?
ReplyDeleteThanks, Matt - I'm not saying I disagree with your answer. Having been a combat vet yourself is actually ideal, because you know what you are talking about from experience.
DeleteDon't you think your former experience (personal, not your team) is going to help you out-think a younger/stronger soldier, and give you the edge to take him out in ambush or other scenario? Or am I giving too much credit to the old saying "Age and experience will defeat youth & enthusiasm every time? :)
K
It will indeed help me, but what good will it do anyone else? How many guys reading this have been in a gunfight in the last 20 years? How many 18-40 year old trigger pullers are reading this? The issue isn't age and experience versus youth and inexperience, there are active duty guys with way more experience than me, and which side do you think they are on? I remember hearing one of my fellow squad leaders talking about the cops in Cali' who lit up the wrong colored truck (back in the Dorner man hunt days) excited about getting to whack people. He wasn't the only one. That was when I decided to get out.
DeleteKeep learning, keep doing, but don't think you're on par with the guys who do this for a living. It's their job. All day. Every day. We get to practice between our real jobs, and families, and hope for the best. I'm not saying it's hopeless, I'm saying set your sights on the 50M target first. After all, there's not that many trigger pullers compared to the III%.
Excellent and reality-based analysis - thank you.
DeleteEveryone, you heard the man: Keep training, do the best you can.
I'll add my 2 cents: Incorporate your Sun Tzu and hit the Bad People where they aren't protecting. Get inside their OODA loop and shred it.
Not to argue, Matt, but before you were in any gunfights- how many gunfights were you in?
DeleteAnd you're still here, and have more experience. Did you survive because you fought someone who was never before in a gunfight?
How many gunfights were the guys of the the 4th ID(just picked off top of head) in before they were in one?
jwoop66
Having served in the infantry in both branches (0311 and 11A) and having been both a non-commissioned and commissioned officer (with a fair amount of actual combat experience,) I can absolutely say that it depends on the individual but I would go with the untested Soldier/Marine over the civilian. I say that only because they are or were surrounded by folks who likely have been to combat and are willing to pass along some learned TTP's.
DeleteThat said, and for my money, I'll take the older combat vet with some experience every time. These are the guys who know the enemy TTP's and are aware enough to know how to counter them. They are also (and this is I believe the most important) experienced enough to know when and when you do not have the ability to immediately gain a tactical advantage.
Before I was ever in a gunfight I had more people than I could count teaching me how to win a gunfight. People who had been in gunfights. I had countless hours of repetitive drills over days and weeks and months to make sure I did exactly what I was supposed to do while in combat. It's not about "Never been in a fight vs Been in a fight" It's about the sheer volume of training. I'm not saying you're not going to fight, I'm not saying you can't win a fight. I'm saying irregular =/= professional soldier. I would llike to believe that I'm still here because I trained hard, with professional soldiers, and learned from them so that when the first round cracked by, I didn't have to think to respond, and by the time I realized I was in a fight, I was already fighting.
DeleteI'm thinking the younger guys are whack jobs. Hearing Matt tell about his murdering scumbag buddies just pisses me off more. I'm not impressed with most returning vets or the cops. A lot of them have mental issues and turn to fat-asses right-quick after termination. Get yourselves quality training and don't stop. Former 11B 3-187th
ReplyDeleteA lot of them do. Some of us step up and do something about it. How about you Rakkasan? Trained anyone lately? 11B, 1-327th.
DeleteI've tried Matt. I'm in a very remote area. Not a sophisticated demographic and are more interested in beer and stupid.
Delete11B 3-187th
I feel for you. I lived in DC for a few years, the stupid to person ratio was about 1:1. Finally found a home in Kentucky. Still a lot of beer and stupid, but every once in a while, you find that one guy. They add up over time.
DeleteI couldn't disagree with Matt more. I am a combat veteran USMC infantryman, and I have to say that the level of skill possessed by the average Army or USMC rifleman is far less than they think.
ReplyDeleteJust because somebody "does it everyday" doesn't mean they are good at it. Remember: practice makes permanent, but perfect practice is what makes perfect. Active Duty grunts get a lot of bad practice. I have seen in my life that the average person lacks self-awareness to judge their own level of skill, and the biggest blind spots tend to be held by the 19-25 year old crowd in the service. They keep getting their heads blown up and egos inflated by training in order to gain confidence, but they don't have all that much to back it up. I am and was a gun guy when I was in; I was viewed as being weird for it. Most soldiers and Marines just do what is required of their job and are far more worried about getting lit and laid on the weekends than about being professionals.
With all that said, don't underestimate them: they do still have a great deal of training and those who have been to combat have something that few others have, which is experience. All I am saying is don't believe the "OMG they will all kill us!!!!" hype. I always said when I was in that if you gave me thirteen PROPERLY MOTIVATED civilians and a regular USMC rifle squad, that I could have the civilian crew fighting circles around the Marines. I still stand by that: find somebody squared away who knows what they're talking about, get fit, and get SERIOUS about training. You need to be doing this stuff weekly or at least biweekly. You need to be studying on your nights and weekends. But the fact is that you do NOT need to be in training full time for a straight year to get to a legitimate level of competence on par with a basically trained rifleman. Most time in training is spent either waiting around or focusing on administrative nonsense that we can bypass as civilians. Your average Army/USMC rifleman won't fire as many rounds in their training pipeline as the average competitive shooter will fire in a month.
The US Army and Marine Corps haven't cornered the market on tactics; get over yourself. If they were the ultimate badasses that they claim to be, then we wouldn't have been spending the past 13 years getting our asses whipped by illiterate camel fuckers.
Exactly, it's about motivation of the individual, they have to want it more than the enemy and it's the quality of training, not quantity. Just look at all the badged enforcers who can hit the broad side of a barn, yet in their minds they're sharpshooters.
DeleteBig bad armies have had their arses handed to them by much smaller but highly motivated opponents.
Think like Sun Zu, fight like a Wolverine.
No one is saying "OMG they'll kill us all" I don't know where you got that, but it hasn't been said. I'm sure you are right, you could totally take a group of untrained civilians, and using the training you received as a Marine, to take out 13 guys who have the same training as you... wait, how does that make sense in your mind? There's that ego you were talking about right there.
DeleteThe average competition shooter may very well burn through a few thousand rounds a month, but how many folks here are professional competition shooters? I know a kid with a hundred mile an hour fast ball. Guess those major league guys are gonna be out of business right?
It's not a matter of comparing a "Basically trained rifleman" to one irregular fighter. It's a team. Teams come with a level of cohesion that you don't find in the civilian world. You have to look at the 4 man team that I was talking about in the first place.
Lastly, Where, on the tactical level, are we losing a fight to the camel fuckers? I must have missed that news report. Strategically, we're boned, but on a fight by fight basis, pretty sure we're kicking ass and taking names, not the other way around...
4-F. Never been in the infantry. 76 YO. But, as much as I can, . . Freedom is worth it. No boxcars for me!
ReplyDeleteAn excellent list of objectives. I would include building community in this list for multiple reasons.
ReplyDeleteBlock parties and picnics in the summer are an easy way to meet your neighbors. Fire house halls work well in the colder months.
I'll never be in the physical shape of a serving combat soldier,due to past injuries,but I work on it daily,getting some combatives training starting in Jan. with an instructor who is going to modify the training to take my physical limitations because of the past injuries into account.
ReplyDeleteLack of PT is still a problem for a whole lot of people-just look at the Watchmen video about the idiots who think they are a trained militia.
They're only in shape it you take it literally,and count round as a shape.
Most people need some kind of motivation to do PT. very few will work out alone,except runners.
Even though the guys who read and post here is a serious adult,and know what they are supposed to do-there are still a whole lot of guys who need a kick in the ass constantly to get them to keep doing PT.
How about coming up with a set of PT standards to go along with MVT's two miler rifleman challenge?
Having a list of minimum standards for PT would possibly motivate some of those who need motivated,maybe make a few levels of PT standards, something like MAX V's two miler being required before any one is considered a III rifleman,only have different levels of physical condition as a requirement for different areas of expertise.
The guy manning the comms doesn't need to be able to do Max's two miler,but still needs to be good at close quarters fighting with his-or her weapons.
Funny how no one here remembers their history as recent as Vietnam and World War 2. When civility disappears, experience and skill matters. Training matters. But I think sacrifice, pitiful bloody sacrifice matters as much as ether training or experience. I am thinking of French partisans, jewish ghetto fighters, Russian conscripts, VC. Most of them were untrained according to the terms of infantry. But they had their place, and made their marks. And they made absolutely no less sacrifice than anyone else.
ReplyDeleteFunny how no one here remembers their history as recent as Vietnam and World War 2. When civility disappears, experience and skill matters. Training matters. But I think sacrifice, pitiful bloody sacrifice matters as much as ether training or experience. I am thinking of French partisans, jewish ghetto fighters, Russian conscripts, VC. Most of them were untrained according to the terms of infantry. But they had their place, and made their marks. And they made absolutely no less sacrifice than anyone else.
ReplyDeleteThere is something missing from the list of preps. What about, do I know what I am fighting for? When I am armed and hungry and exhausted from fighting, and I encounter a woman and child with a little bit of food, I am strong enough not to take it from them? Will I remember:
ReplyDelete"The danger of all dangers would be to lose trust and
confidence in the mercy of God… To distrust him
would be a far more terrible thing than any physical
evil which all the enemies of God put together could
inflict on us, for without God’s permission neither
the devils nor their human ministers could hinder us
in the slightest degree." (Father Perez of Malacca)
I am 50 years old and started working out and sparring 5-6 days a week 5 months ago using free weights, adjusting weights and reps along the way.
ReplyDeletecutting out the sugary drinks and adult beverages has not only reduced the size of my expanding beer gut, but has also resulted in much improved stamina and energy levels which helps with my motivation to get off the couch. Its been 20 years since I was in a Army uniform and had any infantry training. But since I have been reading this site and others like this I want you to know is yes the badgering on PT has worked on me.
I have been prepping for years but the PT is a must.
Judging by the comments above, I'd say that the quality of our army has been decreasing in every way, especially in the past 7 years, so the soldiers today's army attracts are of similar caliber. Yesterday's army cannot be compared to today's army because quality is approaching the exact opposite. Yesterday's aging soldier can run circles around yesterday's active young infantryman through experience and wisdom ...so today's young soldier can run in circles around his own future, a "whoppered" old vet. Therefore yesterday's aged veteran soldier is two to the power of four the quality of today's young soldier...yesterday's army is much smaller today than today's army is, but through quality and motivated civilians, or III, they outmatch today's army many fold, all they need is a network.
ReplyDeleteI think I understand what you are saying.LOL. I have to agree that the older vets most likely had a higher quality of academic and physical training, but you can't take away from the fact that the younger vets are still capable warriors who have earned the respect due them. We need all the good ones we can get- on our side.
DeleteFormer 11B 3-187th
Look folks....the militsry of Barry Soetoro is a effing joke. The DoD is more concerned about promoting social justice and "preventing" sexual harassment of females and faggots, then it is having a trained killing machine. Today on unit bulletin boards one finds a multitude of posters about preventing sexual harassment but you won't find a one stating "Soldier, do you know your battlesight zero" ?
ReplyDeleteSix years of the illegal scoundrel and his lapdogs in his administration, along with 535 pieces of shit in Congress, has gutted the US military, active and reserve. They are today, primarily a worthless, feminized, bunch of slackers in "it" for the money and education bennies. Not for Duty, Honor, Country. Quit kidding yourself the FUSA military is a domestic threat. Far from it. They're truly a bunch of pussies. Literally!
Good article.
ReplyDeleteContrasting J's "OMG they will all kill us" point is the other side of the spectrum with people with no military experience.
I am a military contractor for Army Special Forces training. My day to day job allows me to see what level the SF candidates are operating at. So I have a pretty decent feel for their tactical skills.
Conversely, I have NO IDEA the tactical proficiency level of on average say, a Marine Squad in the 1st Marine Division or a squad from the 101st-AND NEITHER DO YOU.
Watching youtube videos or talking to a few veterans who might have served with some crappy troops is not an all-inclusive scope of what level the modern soldier is at like in Sam's question.
I work with a lot of civilians who have no military experience. They always think they know a better way. THEY SIMPLY DON"T KNOW THE EXTENT OF WHAT THEY DON"T KNOW when it comes to tactics.
If you don't have light infantry experience you simply don't have the knowledge base as to what is right and what is wrong on a tactical level.
You can engage in keyboard commando stuff, take a Tactical Response class or two and fool yourself into thinking that you are better then the average infantryman. But you aren't. Not by a long shot.
Read Mosby's blog. Is all hope lost if you haven't served in the military? No. Like what has been mentioned, get to a good trainer while you can.
There are plenty of statists on things like the FBI's HRT team that take their tactical training, very, very seriously and get training from the best.
Just think about it....there are people out there, whether soldiers or whatever, who essentially get paid to train almost every day. Some of these people are clowns-but a lot aren't. That is who you will be facing. So don't kid yourself.
Good article.
ReplyDeleteContrasting J's "OMG they will all kill us" point is the other side of the spectrum with people with no military experience.
I am a military contractor for Army Special Forces training. My day to day job allows me to see what level the SF candidates are operating at. So I have a pretty decent feel for their tactical skills.
Conversely, I have NO IDEA the tactical proficiency level of on average say, a Marine Squad in the 1st Marine Division or a squad from the 101st-AND NEITHER DO YOU.
Watching youtube videos or talking to a few veterans who might have served with some crappy troops is not an all-inclusive scope of what level the modern soldier is at like in Sam's question.
I work with a lot of civilians who have no military experience. They always think they know a better way. THEY SIMPLY DON"T KNOW THE EXTENT OF WHAT THEY DON"T KNOW when it comes to tactics.
If you don't have light infantry experience you simply don't have the knowledge base as to what is right and what is wrong on a tactical level.
You can engage in keyboard commando stuff, take a Tactical Response class or two and fool yourself into thinking that you are better then the average infantryman. But you aren't. Not by a long shot.
Read Mosby's blog. Is all hope lost if you haven't served in the military? No. Like what has been mentioned, get to a good trainer while you can.
There are plenty of statists on things like the FBI's HRT team that take their tactical training, very, very seriously and get training from the best.
Just think about it....there are people out there, whether soldiers or whatever, who essentially get paid to train almost every day. Some of these people are clowns-but a lot aren't. That is who you will be facing. So don't kid yourself.
For God's sake, get squared away. I am not in the same shape physically as I was in the jungle/paddy years, but I am sharper mentally and wiser (less need for swingin' dick games) and should pass along fact: youth and skill are no match for old age and treachery. Knowing when, how, who, what and where are as important as strength. You must do PT, but if you don't prepare your mind and your heart you are a target. You are a tool, a weapon if you will; but having a rifle and using it are not the same thing. You must be prepared mentally. Years ago, I was dual cool as an 8654; because I did then what I do now. I push myself. It was not for bragging rights at the bar, Grandpa has no one to impress but himself, and owes it to those he holds dear to make certain he can take care of them and not fail. You must prepare your body, heart, mind, and soul. Do not deceive yourself. When folks meet Grandpa, the first thought is what a good Christian gentleman... then, shaking hands, they get a steady gaze and a firm handshake - confidence. Some may give or get a hug, and think for an old guy he's solid - confidence not cockiness. Awareness of ability. Listen, if you don't want to be ready, then you'll die. That's not harsh, that's just truth. You may die anyway, but why not stack the deck? Grandpa pushes himself every single day. Do I hurt? You bet. Do I give a dang that it hurts? Not really, no. If you aren't willing to sacrifice now, you won't later either. Stock up on ammo for the rest of us, so that after you get killed we can try to save your family. Harsh? Yeah, the truth is like that. But you still need to hear it... It doesn't matter if you are a killer now, or you were a killer; or fancy yourself as one; as long as when it's killin' time you hold your corner. Semper Fi. stormfriend
ReplyDeleteI can’t say I’m "squared away" on any of the questions, but I’m working on all, can do most with confidence and will continue to improve on the areas I feel I’m lacking. I try to be my hardest critic and welcome the criticism/assesments of those with more experience in their respective fields of expertise. I’ll hod my corner and if I die put that ammo to good use!
ReplyDeleteRichard R Deaver
III
Can't ask for a more realistic outlook or self-assessment.
Deletehttp://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/10/21/not-all-that-it-can-be-the-myth-of-american-military-superiority/ (Grandpa knew he read something somewhere...senility)
ReplyDeleteGood point, Jim; and brother RRD I got your back... to put Jim Bo's point to sharp edge... I trained with the best to be the best, expecting to confront "their" best. Please folks, do not think that readying yourself is contingent upon "how good is my expected foe..." (example: when you expect to face Spetznaz... you train like Recon, Delta, or SEALs. Or, if you are facing F15s, you build Fulcrums) You are your own competition, so run to win, be better than you were yesterday. It may turn in to an event where both sides simply work to attrit the other, making it necessary to endure to the end. (cold war) Or, it might be hot, bright, loud, and fast. (blitzkrieg) In either, you (and by extension, yours) are up to YOU. Choose wisely how you spend your time until then. But know that the crucible of conflict is a stern master... and as has been stated, the exam is "pass/fail" - it will not be graded on a curve. stormfriend
Off topic subject... Many are up in arms over the poverty pimps and the recent shootings, strange... it was not all that long ago that the Militia pimp was stoking the fires.
ReplyDelete"Break them NOW. Break them and run to break again. Break them under cover of night. Break them in broad daylight. Break them and await arrest in willful, principled civil disobedience. Break them with rocks. Break them with slingshots. Break them with baseball bats. But BREAK THEM."
Bill Nye
I was noting the same thing this morning - lots of weepy-eyes in the Liberty Movement over dead LEO...
DeleteStrange. Or not so much...
I made a similar comment at battlefieldusa this morning, as he is posting fever-pitch about the rampant crocodile tears and mourning throughout the blogsphere of "Patriots" and "Freedom."
DeleteYep and that's what you can take away from all of this...You won't have much support if you lone wolf it...The media will be tearing you to shreds and the liberty movement will be drinking it up...Now if you have networked beforehand and people know what you are all about then it would be a different story...Got Friends....
DeleteI give less than a fuck what the pandering whores of American media regurgitation and the shitbag posers of "Freedom"
Deletethink of me.
That is dumber than laying a coat over a mud puddle to protect the feet of a woman, who the coat's owner knows beforehand, would rather die than bed him.
Fuck that and fuck them!
My tactical decisions are not based on what a shriveled and discarded douche thinks of me.
I care about them as much as they have ever cared about, and were concerned for, my well being.
Oh my, it's Christmas.
Let me count the ways, of how many ways I can lovingly say to them " Fuck you in the ear," "Fuck you two times!"
Unfortunately, some of them reside in the bloglist to the right, with a great gnashing of teeth and righteous indignation, bowing and scraping to the jackboot state while professing loyalty and defense to the rule of Constitutional law from the other side of their diarrhetic mouths.
DeleteYep but then you end up like Dorner, Frein, or this recent guy...Dead or Captured...So it doesn't matter if you don't give a fuck what they think of you if everyone wants to turn you in your not going to last very long...That's my point in case you misunderstood...
DeleteI have figured out the bell curve in the community, being so fortunate to have an ability to stay far out in front of the parade... wins very few friends. The community needs to be spoon fed, hence this is why Rush is as popular as he is.... he knows the damn truth, always has. yet he understands he must spoon feed his wolverines or else risk regurgitation and the dollars drying up.
ReplyDeleteBill Nye
It just makes you sick. It's that damn TV. I know most folks routine consists of working all day, coming home, sitting down in front of that damn tube and then soaking up stupid the rest of the night. Lies for breakfast, lies at lunch, lies at supper, and then some more lies at 11 before bedtime. Zombies.
ReplyDeleteWTF?!
ReplyDeleteMy recent comment was not a personal condemnation of you, it is a stated fact.
As previously mentioned, why would I monthly contribute from my extremely scant monies, if I have a serious personal conflict with you.
Am I walking down sopsey street here now?
?
DeleteThere must be an update lag on my end.
ReplyDeleteI just saw more recent comments laid in before my recents.
My blood is up so I jumped w/o hesitation.
Sorry.
It is early on Christmas Eve morning, my friends... and since next year may bring Christmas mourning... Grandpa asks you to ruminate on the difference between " peacemaker " and "peacekeeper "... while you listen to Greg Lake. .. from a younger time and a different life...
ReplyDeleteI wish you a hopeful Christmas
I wish you a brave new year
All anguish, pain, and sadness
Leave your heart and let your road be clear
They said there'll be snow at Christmas
They said there'll be peace on earth
Hallelujah... Noel... be it heaven or hell
The Christmas you get you deserve... (stormfriend sends)