**BUMP** The overwhelming response is obviously "yes", and I thank everyone for weighing-in. I simply can't express how much it means that I won't have to put my hand out anymore asking for help to finance III Operations. Please feel free to continue commenting if you are of a mind. Here's where we stand: Legally, the organization is locked-up, ready to roll. We could legally begin accepting memberships now - but for practical reasons it is too soon. The Organization will be a 501(c)(4) as far as IRS is concerned. That means the organization doesn't have to pay Federal income tax on most activities. There's a good and a bad to donations: The bad: Your donations/Memberships are not deductible. The good: A 501(c)(4) never has to reveal who you are to anyone, even IRS.
There is more, I'll share when prudent. Hopefully we'll have most of our blocks lined up by the end of the weekend.
~~
1) Does anyone have any problem if we create an official III Organization? Caveat: Nothing would change except some swag and steady income for III Projects. No ranks. Leaderless resistance. You are still III whether you join or not. Everything. Stays. The. Same. - Except the III has steady income for things like the T.O.C. and helping fellow Patriots without having to make a big, noisy mess of it, etc. Money would be held by a Treasurer. Bylaws would be written in stone so no shenanigans. Does anyone have a problem with it?
2) Would you join on an annual basis? Get some swag and discounts.
3) Would you join as a lifetime member? Get some more swag & discounts.
4) Mission Statement: The Restoration of Rightful Liberty in North America.
Anyone got a problem with that short and sweet Mission Statement?
The ultimate winner is the III. Membership numbers mean we can tell NRA and Stewie to kiss our patooties. Yeah, I said it. Patooties.
Please weigh-in.
K
I think this could be a great idea.
ReplyDeleteA loose administrative framework designed to do the above in an orderly manner with accountability to the members: excellent. Said administrative framework can also be used in III to III programs, Chaplaincy Corp, fund-raising (I don't know of very many foundations that will whip out a check-book for a group devoid of at least administration and archives) ...
ReplyDeleteYep - the only way to do it properly is file for 501(c)(4), establish officers (including Treasurer), bylaws that make it impossible for any shenanigans,, etc.
DeleteAnnual Board elections all seats open, external annual audit, hired CPA as treasurer.
DeleteConsider well that those in the admin/board roles are the most exposed as their legal names and addresses become part of the official record and as such will be the lightening rods of OpFor. As are any/all locations rented/owned/used by the organization, even a donated shack to hold supplies for replenishment of the T.O.C. and other support services. There are ways around some of these things, but the annual 990's will give away much of the organization's people and intents.
Im in. Annual is fine. Life would be wonderful but all depends on price. On the same subject, I find it hard to believe that there are no "rich" Patriots out there. Are the commies the only ones with Cash?? Im not trying to be a wise ass, but what about a guy like Glen Beck?? I have no problem giving what I can. But this just sucks big time that we cant find a Patriot with some cash.
ReplyDeleteCraig B
We've been asking the same questions. Plus, of course, we are those crazy bitter-clingers that the "proper" GOP folks and gun companies can be seen rubbing elbows with...
DeleteOn the same subject, I find it hard to believe that there are no "rich" Patriots out there.
DeleteThere are, as well as Southerners who hide in the shadows like little chicken shits.
Working on it ...
Delete"Big noisy mess of it"?!
ReplyDeleteHey! I resemble that remark. ;)
Keep us posted and let me know if there is any assistance needed. Even if its just a name with a title.
In Liberty,
Israel
III
Hmmmph. Proper? There is nothing Proper about those Quislings. Scumbags, lying, cheating scourges of our country, abscess of the Earth, PoliTICians.
ReplyDeleteMiss Violet, oh and yeah, I'd join. ;-)
Interesting, even though im a VP i have always been a supporter of the III % and i seriously don't think it would be hard at all for this to grow into something big .
ReplyDeleteBottom line , i think it's a awesome idea.
I read your blog. Sometimes a little over the top in your thinking and I don't always agree with the things you say, but a good blog.
ReplyDeleteAs to "joining" and offering up my hard earned $ to someone I don't know, to represent me in a situation that could ultimately cost me my job or my family or my life? No. I don't know you. I don't know your character. I know only those things you have written on these pages.
You read like a pretty good guy, I do think you are getting a little ahead of things, imho, but no. I don't think it is a good idea to form an organization such as you are promoting. By what I have all ready read here, and other sites, we are all already "members".
I think I understand what you are trying to do here, but (again only my opinion) your Citadel project and your dojo funded by donors kind of puts you in the position of not being eligible to manage anything in this new organization. Don't you see a conflict of interest raising it's head? (In the area of finance is what I am referring to.) I am not trying to cast ANY aspersions on you sir. Just my thoughts.
I cannot afford to travel, hook up with folks from other parts of the country and speculate on future happenings like a lot of your posters do. As I have said, I agree with many of your thoughts, but I think starting an organization that many of it's unsolicited followers tend to spew thoughts over the internet that are more opinion than fact, could be more trouble than gain. What I mean is there are lots of unknowns out there that are fakes and hunters of trouble. You can't weed them out. Many of the reports from the Bundy incident are exactly what I'm writing about. I'm sure you've read them.
I'm a vet...took my oath and served. Now I'm older and try and slowly think things through a bit. You and your associates will do as you please and the day may come that I am proved wrong and you are proved right. Only He knows the answer to that question. I just think that you should reconsider the idea of a paid membership organization.
Hope I didn't say anything wrong or out of line here. You asked for opinions and, as a regular daily reader, I offered one.
Blessings and good health....:)
With respect, yes, I have an issue with the following:
ReplyDelete- The Mission Statement: North America is comprised of 3 nations. I can find no reason to interfere with the natural right of self-determination of Canada or Mexico until such time as they become declared enemies.
- The By-Laws: Who will write/approve them? How will officers be elected and what will their accountability be and to whom?
- How will the people doing the administration of the organization be compensated for their time/skills/work?
- What is the ROI for members (patches, stickers, t-shirts, etc)? Yes, I know you've mentioned access to videos, etc.
- Who will determine the projects to be supported by the influx of membership fees?
Again, I'm not trying to pee in anyone's Wheaties; just honest questions.
Bylaws would have to be set up and generally hashed out to a general consensus. Such an organization would require at least a few full-time employees, eventually. That'd have to be worked out in the bylaws. RoI same-same. I could see narrowing the mission statement to CONUS or the current 50 - we can hash it out. Same with what projects we undertake, and those we don't - the Board would have to be participatory to say Yes or No to a situation like Bundy.
DeleteLike every other project we've undertaken here, we'd hash it out first, then decide.
Thanks for the clarification!
DeleteAnd don't think your name doesn't have an asterisk next to it for Board Member/Officer...
DeleteI am sure there are many other abler men and women.
DeleteAddendum....as to the Oath, I'm already subject to one I've taken 7 times. For folks who've not taken the same Oath, this one would work.
ReplyDeleteYou see the nuance and the reason for the nuance, yes?
DeleteBy paragraph:
ReplyDelete1) concur, let's do it.
2 and 3) either, or. Both work for me
4) North America, nah...CONUS, don't like (excludes Hawaii, which in fedGov parlance is considered (OCONUS). United States of America works; that's what this is all about.
5) Like Trainer, I gave my oath 7 times as .mil, and then once as .gov; I don't see the need (or nuance) of the "...principles behind the..." inclusion. Either my brain is fried from working my ass off all day, or I'm just slow. The oath every military member swears/swore has worked for generations.
The nuance in the oath is to satisfy our non-Constitutional allies, and those who believe the Constitution has been so perverted that to defend it in it's current state would be to defend Evil itself.
DeleteI think the language beautifully puts a foot in each world, and both sides can agree with it.
And - nope. I didn't write it. A smarter brain than what's in my braincase came up with that simplistic bit of brilliant nuance.
K
"The oath every military member swears/swore has worked for generations."
DeleteMaybe that's because they're military members and not because of the oath. Every politician and LEO takes an oath too. If this is oaths working, I'd hate to see what not working looks like.
Now me, I'm just searching the Internet for something--anything--that's not about what others ought to do. Big Internet, but not much today.
Jim, the problem isn't the oath....the problem is the person making the oath. People today (for the most part) have forgotten what it means to take an oath or give your word. Personal responsibility is out the window; honoring your word is out the window. Self-absorption and "getting what is due me" is the norm. Now, I'm talking general population, not those who get it (most military, III-pers, some LEOs, a few politicians, etc.)
DeleteThanks, Fuzzy. I get that and hopefully my response to Trainer will clarify my comment. I didn't mean to imply that an oath is any problem at all. I did mean to imply that in the end, it all rests on the individual making (or not making) the oath. That's all. Admittedly I'm nearly always implying that point, but that's because I believe it's pretty much all that matters.
Delete1.) Good idea - I am all for it. I would like to see something more patriot oriented grow to a national level. Become a serious voice and force like the Tea Party became.
ReplyDelete2.) Yes
3.) Yes
4.) I'm with others, would prefer limited to USA/CONUS
5.) I like the idea of the oath, I think it would be great if it was the exact same oath military takes. This gives those of us who have never served the opportunity to take it (skin in the game) and I think it gives us credibility and moral authority equal to the tyrants hiding behind badges and .gov/.mil uniforms
JB
1: it's needed
ReplyDelete2: yes
3: yes
4: United States, not North America
5: I do solemnly swear, so help me God.
PP III to III KC1BEP
I'm in.
ReplyDeleteAnother nit: "support and defend the principles behind..." is too vague. Get rid of 'principles behind' or add language more specific to what is being protected and defended, and it might be fine.
ReplyDeleteAs to the non-Constitutionalists, if their goal is to restore rightful liberty in this country, or their State, restoration of the pre-1861 (plus the 13th Amend) is the best vehicle available to do that. The DoI is wonderful, and does set forth reasoning for action taken in 1776, but it is not what limits government action against rights. A properly administered Constitution would.
Next nit: I'm Christian, so I have no problem with, 'So Help Me God'. Our agnostic and or atheist friends might.
Last nit: Protect against what, precisely? Consider adding language like, "all enemies, foreign and domestic to include any public official that violates any limitation therein or wrongfully violates the inalienable rights of the citizenry." Long and wordy, I know, but it provides an idea of precisely what the Constitution (and DoI) is being protected from. Basically, the Oath taker knows what he/she is getting into because they have to swear to it.
Again, I think the idea is sound for those who've never taken the Oath before. I would not make it mandatory for anyone who's taken their Oath already and still wants to honor it. For those who want to do it again, or feel it necessary, great. The folks who've not taken the Oath and take this one still have the common bond of protecting and defending the Constitution (and DoI if included) against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
JK: The Oath only works if it means something, and typically that occurs through shared hardships, which is one reason .mil people have that minimal bond as a starting point when building teams pledged to die, if necessary, for that cause. I dare say that contemporary America has lost the sense of 'something worth dying for' that's greater than themselves, but that's me. Most people seem to only care for what's in it for them. The Oath underscores a need to possibly sacrifice oneself to ensure the basis for the societal contract endures.
As you like to say, the person chooses to have it mean something or not. All we can do is decide if we're going to honor the Oath we took or crap on it like certain politicians, and sadly, a growing number of .mil and leo's are doing. An Oath establishes a certain code of acceptable and unacceptable behavior that can be dealt with by the group.
Remember, taking the Oath and joining this organization (if it moves beyond concept) is strictly voluntary, so it's 'by consent'. This post begain with questions that all equate to 'do you think this is a good idea?' not,'you ought to do this', so if I'm understanding your concern correctly, what's the issue?
Thanks, K
No issue, none at all. Any group should do as they want to do, the way they want to do it. And there's nothing wrong at all with any oath, of any type. As you note, since it's all consensual, it's nobody's business but the consentors.
DeleteReally, my first paragraph was just to get to the second. I'm nearly ready to vomit, if not croak, from reading--not here particularly, but anywhere--about everyone opining what everyone else should be doing. It drives me crazy because it's the root of the whole thing. There's yet to be a person alive who controls anything but himself, at least without the force and coercion. It would just be nice to see someone explicitly acknowledge that, instead of spending virtually all of their time analyzing what the rules and oaths ought to be for everyone else.
Again, that's not a gripe about this idea or this crowd. It's just a very broad gripe, and this happened to be the place where it landed. I'd still say it's very important, though sorry if I gave any wrong impression about oaths or groups. Have at it...I want all decent people to get whatever they want, as long as they earn it..
"Have at it...I want all decent people to get whatever they want, as long as they earn it."
DeleteHoly shit! I agree with you. Surely a sign of the end times...
I'm in, annual or life.
ReplyDeleteThe Political wing of the Movement needs to get its house in order. WE need and framework independent from the money grubbing whores who acts as leadership in the Tea Party, NRA and Oath Keepers. (note I said leadership in those orgs). The III and Militias need an org that can provide legal support, logistical support and is held to strict account for funds and actions.
ReplyDeleteThis has potential. I could support it. I think the inclusion of an oversight committee to weed out crazies and APs would also come in handy. We have some intel people who should be willing. (not me) But it all has to start somewhere. WHY NOT here, with us.
Ok, so we're gonna tweak an oath to appease certain folks (a minority) so they will feel comfortable and join an association of otherwise like minded individuals with a common though unstated goal to be politically correct (the majority). Understand that I am taking a liberal view of the thing for the moment. Now, what happens when one of the appeased members proceeds to bad mouth and/or condemn the Constitution of the United States as the source of all evil as they surely believe and will express at some point?
ReplyDeleteDon't tweak, don't even start down that road. As for the last point, there will be a membership committee and a disciplinary board, all spelled out in the bylaws and expulsion recommendations will be affirmed by the members via an electronic vote with results published. This will necessitate a members only web presence and security processes.
DeleteThere are many facets and complcations that will by needs, be presented to the proposed membership for hammering out the details to the majority approval (and not simple majority either, 3/4 or greater for affirmation.
The bad - mouther is unceremoniously discharged from the group
DeleteReady, Alan? I think you're right again. One shouldn't compromise on matters such as these. Period. Naturally, I'd say that's why one should be very, VERY careful about the principles over which one is (not) compromising.
DeleteYou're running up against Pragmatism. Not compromising means not having those who disagree on some points, not being part of the group. As a matter of principle, I'm with you that this shouldn't matter. But as a matter of practice, it leaves you with numerically a smaller group than you otherwise might have.
Just imagine...if you'd work on the principles as carefully as I do, then maybe we could have both.
sounds like a good plan to me
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHey, Anon - troll elsewhere.
DeleteYou said in the other blog "Lifetime Members would be awarded greater influence in the organization...." As in shares of stock? Some more equal than others? Open lines of communication in a blog format will lead to trolls, .gov, so a more secure avenue is needed. I started ans ran a 501 3c corp for years were we had a secure group at Yahoo Groups, as secure as anything is these days, where the moderator, me, had to approve every member. There were a few that did not get approved or the boot after the fact. Also with Yahoo Groups, you can get instant notification via email on a computer or your sometimes smart phone. Been using it since 2000. Good way to get alerts out and Freeconference.com is a good way for conference calls. Which will be needed for BoD meetings and so on.
ReplyDeleteJust some thoughts that have bouncing around the past couple of days.
BTW where are the westerners? I only know of Kenny.
Lynn A. Stokes
Captain
Eastern Pacific Yacht Delivery Service
Morro Bay,Ca.
Speaking of Wirecutter, anyone had contact with him? He's not posted since 24 May...very unusual. Just sayin'
DeleteYep - he's good. I emailed you last night, maybe got caught in spam.
DeleteExactly what happened. Thanks!
DeleteTrainer - left you something in Unseen.
DeleteReplied.
DeleteI've sworn a similar oath several times as an Infantryman. I still hold my oath sacred.
ReplyDeleteI also firmly believe the time has come to either recapture existing structures for real oath keepers, or cast them aside in favor of an organization that is not afraid to make a real difference.
The gov already knows me, so I'm not afraid to put my name on the rolls of membership in the III, and I'll send my money to help where it is needed. Count me in.
Suggested Modification:
ReplyDeleteI, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to include any public official that violates any limitation on government therein or wrongfully violates the inalienable rights of any citizen; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties and responsibilies with which I am charged. So help me God.
How about we beat on this for a bit? It's specific, does not allude to 'an office', speaks directly about who/what is being protected and includes public officials as a party to be watched.
This should get the discussion burning quite warmly! No pride of authorship here, either....it's all plagerized from various sources. :-)
So be it!
ReplyDeleteAs to your plan
ReplyDelete1. Do it ,by all means
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Absolutely
5. proud to take the oath done it many times and meant it sorry to say they have forgotten
finally, Ive met with you guys at brocks 3-4 times, read your blog daily and
will be proud to be a part
D Wood PA
Odd place for this but as I have been commenting for a couple of weeks (and been reading much longer) an intro of sorts is perhaps in order. You can see my name, that is really me. I'm a veteran, a rebellious Orthodox Priest who is also a federal felon. I've made mistakes and paid the consequences. I've been a government contractor as CEO of Blue Iraq, providing satellite comms to our troops and units in Iraq as well as other services. I've become disabled while serving 36 months in federal prison (due to their 'health' care system) and have recently overcome a near fatal illness (End Stage Renal Disease) that had me enrolled in Hospice so I could pass at home. I beat it through the Grace of God and sheer determination and belief that there is work unfinished, that there is a mission yet unfulfilled.
ReplyDeleteSam has been provided all my bona fides and more. I want no one to have any illusions about me, I was a real bastard earlier in my life and I am a much wiser and chastened man today. I am also a man that will not compromise on my belief in our nation and the endoed right of Liberty. You will see me write about admin structures because I know them intimately. I also know how to tie them (as well as government agencies) in knots. Look me up on wikipedia and read my page. Read between the lines as there is a sub-context that you are not being told.
I won't hide my identity but I will not play any advisory or leadership role. I'll be a happy worker-bee and will proudly don my clerics and stand at the forefront armed with a cross and God's Word. I will offer His comfort to all on whatever side and will gladly be there for the comfort and worship for those we support regardless of denomination, creed or belief as a Chaplain must.
I offer my service, my commitment to the oath I took on Jan. 3, 1974 and still hold dear today. Make use of me as you will, I shall endeavor to give good service.
We are III
We are all federal felons here its just some of us haven't been caught yet...Anybody that is freedom minded and can actually think for themselves are at direct odds with evil that is controlling the US and the world at the moment...Welcome to the fold..There are more III than anyone realizes and we will prevail...
DeleteThanks Lineman.
DeletePaul L
III
I have been stalking this blog for sometime now and most of what I see and read here makes me feel like we all need to be doing something
ReplyDeleteI for one have done nothing but arm myself and my wife and always felt more of a lone wolf than any part of like minded folk(to few imo) I would really consider a membership in the III and would wear the patch proudly
Horrible idea. Plain and simple. Just like the Citadel or as I call it....."Target #1 for a drone Hellfire missile."
ReplyDeleteOh, golly-gosh-dagnabbit - Anon, does this mean you won't be with us?
DeleteHe'll be there, ragged, dirty and hungry, knocking on the gate begging for food, clothing and ammo ...
DeleteDid it ever occur to you Anon that you are the horrible idea and that your daddy really should of pulled out instead of bringing such a cowardly pussy into this world...We all have to meet our maker its how we choose to live that will determine whether he welcomes us home or turns us away...
DeleteIs this strictly your opinion or do you have something to offer in the way of constructive criticism, such as: "This is not a good idea for the following reasons....."
DeleteHappy to read them if you do.
I would prefer a subscription model. I was recently laid off and don't make a great deal of money even when employed, so it's easier for me to send a little every month than come up with a larger some to meet a sudden emergency.
ReplyDeleteOrganize as a Group: Yes, Patch: Yes, Annual re-up: Yes (Getting the picture?). Happy to become un-Anonymous as soon as a decision is made and ground rules laid out.
ReplyDeleteWhile I reserve my opinion of this due to the above comments on the infallible nature of the US Constitution, it seems to me that the few comments (yes, some anon) against this idea have been met with hostility. Does anyone here want true discussion, or just yes men? Some of you know me, and I enjoy being the 10th man. I would suggest listening to dissent because there is some truth in every comment. Dismissing those with reservations is not the way to smart organization. -55six
ReplyDelete55six - I don't see any hostility - can you point me to the comments? I do try to answer if someone has a concern.
DeleteK
I'm guilty and hereby retract all improper replies.
DeleteMea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Paul L.
III
Hey 556 if your referring to my comment to anon the troll as hostile it was meant to be...I hate trolls that come in here and shit all over the place...They don't add anything of value to the conversation we are having...If anon had stated it was a bad idea and here are the reasons why and here are the solutions then I wouldn't have responded that way...We have had good discussing on your old blog and I respect your opinions so if you thought anon was being anything but a troll let me know why...
DeleteI agree the person may be trolling. But perhaps asking why they believe it is a bad idea. Hell, I have my own reservations about organizing, especially with lists and dues. I guess the comments in reply to the poster in question were even less productive than his statement. When such ideas are put out in the spotlight and comments are requested, one has to be willing to eat the crust with the loaf.
DeleteI am indeed glad that people are ready to do something other than whining and bitching. I do my part in a more behind the scenes way and organizing for me would maybe do harm to those who would be in my proximity. God speed. -55six
Folks - I deleted the comment and troller. He was flaming with the kind of "debate" one reads at SSI and MSNBC.
DeleteI'm all for legitimate debate. But do not bring verifiable lies and ad hominem into my house.
K
is there really the need for a devil's advocate since we're surrounded by liberal demons on every side...??? in fact, when many of us try to talk with those who claim to be "conservative" and "patriotic", we're oftentimes met with the same sort of nay-saying... frankly i, for one, don't need it... if i need a dose of "piss-me-off", all i need do is strike up a convo with one of any number of reps from the various social organizations i deal with...
ReplyDelete"yes men"...??? hardly... anyone around this blog for any length of time realizes that most here have, at times, agreed to disagree agreeably...
all that aside, good to see you post again, 55six
PP III to III KC1BEP
Kerodin: Check your email for latest regarding this subject.
ReplyDeleteWe Are III
It all sounds good to me.
ReplyDeleteI'm in, they already know what and who I am anyway.
ReplyDeleteGood idea
ReplyDeleteI'm in
Frosty