So, here's a question for you .mil guys to which I do not know the "by-the-book" answer.
(Personally, I shoot the heavy gunner who can do the most damage in the shortest time)
You and your guys are on patrol - and you find these German snots.
Who do you shoot first?
The heavy gunner who can turn and do real damage?
The Commanding Officer, who has morale potential?
The Comms guy so he can't crack the mic?
Just curious.
Kerodin
III
I was always taught to shoot the comms guy and try to take out the radio while you're doing it.. they are then effectively cut off from help, especially air support.
ReplyDeleteGerman military hierarchy is a lot like ours. If the OIC gets whacked, then the next guy down the chain takes over - unit is still functional and on mission, so the OIC isn't first...
The heavy weps guy? He would be second, but if whomever is in charge is even remotely competent, heavy weps guy will be replaced by his A-gunner in a matter of minutes (if it doesn't happen automatically).
So, it would be Comms guy, then heavy weps guy, then whomever is in charge (if they can be identified)...
NON-military... but for what it is worth, here would be my order of fire... 1.) Heavy Gunner-he can do the most damage the quickest and if you are dead from him, you ain't gonna pop anyone else. 2.) Coms guy next-if he is dead, he can't call for support or give away your position. 3.) Next 2 guys standing "closest together", kills next two guys in shortest time due to proximity. Then if by chance the CO is left last, grill him for intel and then shoot him too! That would be my preference. But I am just an untrained patriot with a legal firearm ready to fight the enemies of the Constitution.
ReplyDeleteIf "our" patrol is squad or platoon size, I'd assign targets in this order:
ReplyDelete1-comms
2-gunner
3-CO
4-everyone still standing
My selection is based on two criteria-
a-the opfor hasn't seen or smelled "our" patrol, so the visual advantage will be a good balancer
b-the time between shots will be rapid enough that the opfor will have two seconds, at best, to react to the fire
This is just my observation/opinion, Mosby or others may have a different view.
In order of importance:
ReplyDeleteComm - Absolutely first if you can ID him.
MG - Self-evident.
Officer
NCO
Anyone else bringing effective fire to bear on your position or exposed.
Remember, though....shoot, then move. The Germans will be zeroing your firing position.
That's the way we did it 'back in the day'.
Fuck the dumb shit.
ReplyDeleteKeep it simple.
Lob a frag or mortar round and get 'em all at once!
Then, it's time for beer and medals at the E-club.
;)
There's a joke in there, but who needs the NSA pitching camp up my arse... ;)
DeleteThe WWII German gruppe (squad) was built around the light machine gun (either the MG34 or MG42. / sometimes utilized in a "heavy" role). The machinegun was the core of the squad and tactics were built around it much like in the modern U.S. Army. The primary duty of the riflemen (schutzen) contained in the squad was to protect the MG. If a squad was encountered while they were on patrol, the gruppenfuhrer (squad leader) would have been at the front of the "column" with the officer or nco on his left. The machine-gunner would be next and he would have been immediately followed by his two assistants and usually five riflemen. The tail would be brought up by the turppenfuhrer (assistant squad leader). Later when radios became more commonplace in combat, the "funker" or radio man was next to the last in the "column" for obvious reasons. With all of that said the odds are that when a squad was encountered, the first persons seen would probably be the squad leader, officer or nco, and the machine-gunner. If the meeting was happenstance and we met at turn in the road within 100 meters I would shoot the machinegunner first and the officer next if it was possible to do so. Naturally the "funker" would need to be dispatched ASAP. However, if I were at 400 meters and the funker could be identified using optic, etc. I would deal with him first and then the machine-gunner, then the "peacocks" wearing the tresse.
ReplyDeleteThe WWII German gruppe (squad) was built around the light machine gun (either the MG34 or MG42. / sometimes utilized in a "heavy" role). The machinegun was the core of the squad and tactics were built around it much like in the modern U.S. Army. The primary duty of the riflemen (schutzen) contained in the squad was to protect the MG. If a squad was encountered while they were on patrol, the gruppenfuhrer (squad leader) would have been at the front of the "column" with the officer or nco on his left. The machine-gunner would be next and he would have been immediately followed by his two assistants and usually five riflemen. The tail would be brought up by the turppenfuhrer (assistant squad leader). Later when radios became more commonplace in combat, the "funker" or radio man was next to the last in the "column" for obvious reasons. With all fo that said the odds are that when a squad was encountered, the first persons seen would probably be the squad leader, officer or nco, and the machine-gunner. If the meeting was happenstance and we met at turn in the road within 100 meteres I would shoot the machinegunner first and the officer next if it was possible to do so. Naturally the "funker" would need to be dispatched ASAP. However, if I were at 400 meters and the funker could be identified using optic, etc. I would deal with him first and then the machine-gunner, then the "peacocks" wearing the tresse.
ReplyDeleteI liked the question,I learn from the answers. Knowledge is big medicine. Jeffery, I think has it right. My instincts were on par with Zoomie, Kill em all and do it quickest and mostest.
ReplyDeleteLOL. In combat, you kill whoever the fuck pops up first or ducks down last. Stop trying to turn an art into a science.
ReplyDeleteAnon: Thanks for the $.02 - I owe you change.
DeleteI do not break the fist necessarily thrown at me in CQB,
I look for the strategic target that will break the enemy.
This reduces energy on my part, increases efficiency,
proficiency, and in a group, will often end the fight quicker, as his buddies will not always choose to follow him into the meat grinder.
Principles tend to be universal.
If the radioman is on the mic with HQ, it is probably a good idea to hold fire until he shuts his yap.
If a General is in the mix, still going to shoot the slowest?
Fighting is a thinking man's game.
K
"Fighting is a thinking man's game."
DeleteWatch yourself; that might be classified information.
ALL human action is a thinking man's game, tautologically. You're on a roll---"Principles tend to be universal."
Anon 8:32 am's answer to K's question, "kill whoever the fuck pops first or ducks down last" is interesting only in that it demonstrates no knowledge of target discrimination, strategic thinking, or even something as simple as making sure 'the Germans' don't get word back for reinforcements, in discussing this mythical firefight. In other words, Anon is either a video gamer or movie watcher. Or...maybe just a troll.
DeleteCombat, or war, more generally, is a science.
The "art" of war is the study of the scientific principles, methodologies, skills, tactics and strategies that will, if applied effectively, allow one to beat his antagonist.
History's greatest soldiers were life long students of the science involved in war fighting.
To steal something from K, "if my reply to your non-sensical statement upsets you, go fuck yourself...sideways, with a chainsaw...without shame..." or something like that.
I am intolerant of fools today.
Have a very ABGD day.
Shoot the one in the back and work forward so they don't see people dropping. Worked for sgt. York...turkeys and all.
ReplyDeleteSteel6whiskey
"You and your guys" get in position and everyone takes out their assigned targets and then keeps firing at whoever is still moving until no one is left alive.
ReplyDeleteYou did train and plan for this possibility before going out on patrol, right?
singlestack
Comm - cut them off
ReplyDeleteNCO - the real guy in charge
Weapons guy - next order of danger
Officer - he should be done crapping himself by now, time to sleep
Single stack has it right we actually had pre assigned targets if an encounter like this arouse. i.e point knew if he could identify comms that was his man squad leader knew he was shooting for any heavy weapons assistant went for leadership all others added fire for greater effect at available targets to ensure maximum impact of the element of surprise. If you outnumbered them your own comms called in contact
ReplyDelete