Jamie had what I think is a fabulous idea, and she has done a lot of legwork in finding out how viable it would be to design and have a 1 ounce silver bullion round (.999 of course) minted.
Forget the 30 second artwork I added to the silver blanks above - if we do it we'll do something awesome.
My question: Is a III silver bullion round something you would buy to support III efforts?
My thinking is that the first one purchased would have some profit built into it - it is a fundraising vehicle, afterall. But after you've bought the first we would try to be as close to market prices as possible for all future purchases. Part of that market price would have to include the cost of striking our own designs - we could never mint enough to get the same price breaks as the US Mint, for instance.
Of course if the bottom falls out of the economy you'd be holding a silver bullion coin and the value would skyrocket.
Is this an idea worth pursuing? We actually have the resources to do an initial run if there is serious interest.
Kerodin
III
PS: IIIGear folks - a boatload of gear went out Saturday (remember Monday was a holiday and nothing was moving) and more went out today. If you are waiting on gear it is probably en route right now.
http://dont-tread-on.me/ have done something similar and have been successful. They ran into problems with the quality of the die and reached out to a liberty minded artist to help. If we get her on board to make the dies we should have a quality product.
ReplyDeleteIt would depend on how much the premium would be.
ReplyDeleteBob
III
K,
ReplyDeleteEXCELLENT idea! Not that I am any kind of financial guru, but I have been reading some of the financial websites other Patriots have mentioned throughout the blogosphere (silverdoctors.com for example), and started buying 1 oz. silver rounds several months ago as a hedge against the coming (very soon, I fear)collapse of the US dollar.
I agree that it would be ok to mark up the first run "commemorative" coins. However, in order to sell many after that, you would need to peg the cost of each round to the "spot" market just like all other purveyors of silver rounds. Depending upon where you buy and what type of round you purchase, the going rate runs from about $0.99 to $2.50 "over spot" as they say.
I for one would certainly be interested if they were competetively priced.
Alan S. Pedersen
III Congressional Delegate SC
Fort Mill, SC
The only metal I invest in is lead. I guess I'm just too stupid to see the necessity of precious metals.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I would buy one of these coins in a heartbeat.
I also think this is a super idea.
As for design, I have a Blackwater coin that I think is pretty cool. While not applicable directly, it does have a great design that may be of value.
Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar
ReplyDeletePerhaps a "coin" may not be the best idea. Give the government as little justification as possible.
All it takes is one stupid, gullible, or coerceable pizza clerk and you're looking at time behind bars for counterfeiting and the loss of all your real, tangible, non fiat, money.
Now, since everyone seems to want a magic fix, a single solution to all the woes...how about silver bullets? :>
Seriously, though, small, non coin shaped bars are probably the safest route. Or small "collectable" figurines or "trading" bars. Thing Magic:The Gathering or Pokemon, but in silver and with patriot likenesses.
As long as its not a "dollar" you are golden. They call them rounds, it is done every day anon.
DeleteThe forces that be are making the rules as they go along. My reading of the events from the linked bit was they talked a pizza clerk into saying she was cheated, turned that into charge of counterfeiting, and then spun that into a "rule" that independent coinage was a form of "economic terrorism" and thus illegal.
DeleteThey then sought to confiscate the real wealth the metal represented, and have recently asked EBay to quit letting people list the Freedom Dollars. Maybe my reading is incomplete, and I don't have enough information, but that is what the situation looks like from my vantage.
At least make them look like idiots when they decide to play Calvinball with your liberties.
That's why I suggested trading cards. It provides a non-coin reason for having multiples while still being small enough, and uniform in dimension enough, to carry as money.
I've been "collecting" 90% junk silver coins and .999 bars and rounds for a couple of years. I'd add several more of the ones the III produces in a heartbeat.
ReplyDeleteAlways looking to add more silver to the stash.
ReplyDeleteEnd cost being the deciding factor. As mentioned above, just be sure to clearly indicate they are not "currency" but collectibles.
You have to distinguish between collectible (or commemorative) value and precious metal value. You can do the first cheaper with paper, duh. The problem with the second is that everything rests on the guarantee of the silver, both weight and purity.
ReplyDeleteLiquidity is the big issue with silver. Bullion from Englehard or Johnson & Matthey (and in the old days, countries) is 100% liquid, other mints and commemoratives somewhat less so. OTOH silver is silver and lots of people, including me back when I was a buyer, don't care about the origination.
In a closed system, scrip is as good as gold or silver. That's why the liquidity, and hence guarantee, of the precious metal is so important outside of that system.
BTW ASNM, the US dollar already collapsed; lemmings are just slow to admit it. That's why federal banks and agencies have been able to get all they want for nothing, for quite a while now. I'd say that we might able to do that too one day, except that toilet paper and firestarter will always carry some value.
ReplyDeleteYou're just talking about the recognition of the collapse, which involves an honest look at the balance sheet.
Initially, I believe there will be some who will want the silver round (Today approx. $31.00 oz), but if the price rises, of course the interest may wain and the profit as well. I think maybe a "challenge coin" would be a better and cheaper alternative for profit. I've purchased challenge coins between $5-15.00 in the past. If you check out this site you'll see that coins start around 5.00 and after adding some features, you could sell a coin for $8.00-20.00? just an idea.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.customchallengecoins.com/customcoin-pricing/
Boarshide
I've looked into these for PatCons and they are a great idea, but it is expensive to start up because of the fees associated with the dies, etc.
DeleteMiss Violet
That's the one concern I have, Miss V. As fundraisers and commemoratives, the pricepoint can be wherever we set it. But in order to be competitive with bulk silver dealers who sell US Eagles (the dealer doesn't have to build in margin for dies, only the silver) we'll have a hard time competing.
DeleteI've been looking and there are silver Eagle dealers out there selling at $38-$39 per coin, with closing spot at $32. Seems like a HUGE ripoff to me, especially when you consider that when you want to sell your coins back for FRNs they only offer $28 or so.
If we do this, I never want to play that game.
K
That's an insane spread, so you're looking at the wrong places. It should absolutely never be more than 15%, and is more usually in the 6-8% range for serious dealers, even at retail.
DeleteEven that can sometimes be cut with legwork, since one place will be slightly better for buying, and another for selling.
One problem with Eagles is that you've got to deal with changing premiums as well as spot; confusing. Another is the mint that gets the profit for making them.
The only thing that would concern me is the large fluctuations in silver price. If you had bought silver a few months back when it was over $40/ ounce, you would be sitting on stock you could only sell for a loss right now. The idea is very cool, but the price fluctuations make it very risky as a business.
ReplyDeleteSilver is good. And like it was posted finding the right source for the blanks is the main price, depending what they charge for 'spot'. A coin (or called a demo)would be great to carry in your pocket to remind you of what you are, a Patriot. I'd buy one or two real fast. Silver market changes, like right now it's 31.65 per ounce, last night it was 32.45.
ReplyDeletePapa Mike
III
Yeah, I'd score some.
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm seeing in meat-space is a real shortage of silver rounds. You can invest in paper silver (kept by a third party) but that is insane for a true hedge against fiat collapse. What I think would be Ideal would be for a half-ounce round, as they would cost less, thereby making buying some less expensive. Two reasons for this. First, as I've said, finding tangible silver is getting tough, so folks are buying with an eye towards a replacement currency, or barter medium. Having a half ounce would make "change" for lack of a better word. It would beat the hell out of handing over an Ounce of silver for two gallons of milk and a loaf of bread.
ReplyDeleteSecond, there truly is a demand for this size round, and if some III were to buy them attractively and sell them into the coin shops, what better advertisement could one ask for than to relate the III brand with something of tangible value.
Just my .02 worth (less when adjusted for inflation).
OneEyedJack
I would buy some rounds depending on how much it will cost over the price of silver per ounce. A couple dollars over spot per round seems reasonable. Or maybe do half or quarter ounce and charge a buck extra each to fund-raise by volume rather than by ounces sold.
ReplyDeleteThis smaller size coinage could also offset any loss that you might incur if the price drops after a bulk purchase. Just a thought.
Do you folks think 1 oz silvers would be better or 1/2 or 1/10 ounce if we are going to strike our own designs?
ReplyDeleteK
The greater the weight, the more efficient. That's because the cost of striking them, not to mention the cost of marketing and/or selling them, is spread over more weight.
DeleteBesides the silver itself, it costs the same to strike (and sell) 10oz as 1oz or 1/10 oz. Hence that cost and markup is much less percentage-wise on the 10oz than the 1/10oz, by a factor of about 100. Each unit costs more, but that's because of the silver.
Of course, as commemoratives the same logic holds in reverse, allowing greater markups at a lower selling price. But in that case you hardly need the silver at all, and trading cards would probably do.
"You have to distinguish between collectible (or commemorative) value and precious metal value."
Just make the coin we all will buy. A great pocket coin that one can be proud of !
ReplyDelete