Honda NC700X - is this the type of "Dual Purpose" you folks have been suggesting? The ability to slip into the woods if needed? Here's the link to the Honda page.
The above is a 2013 Honda CBR RR in 600cc.
Below is a 2013 Honda CBR RR in 250cc.
I've got little street experience ridding sportbikes. My experience is from my teens - a long time ago - riding a 250 dirtbike around my Uncle's swampy/beach/farm on the river in Maryland, near the bay. I briefly flirted with racing sportbikes at Summit Point in my 20's and managed to live through it.
I am pretty convinced I will be purchasing one of the two bikes above by spring. Mrs. Kerodin is not so certain. I'll handle that later.What I need is anyone who has experience with late model CBR's (600 & 250).
I know I am looking at apples and oranges.
Purposes:
1) To learn another skill that I suspect will soon become very valuable.
2) To use the bike operationally, when required.
3) Occasional open highway trips to AO's - ranges could be substantial.
Everything I have read says the 250 will max out on a trip from, say, DC to Chicago - it won't like so much highway at 70+ MPH.
The 600 is a LOT of sportbike and when I go down the first time, it may be my last. But I have a philosophy that it's hard to have too much. Is 250 enough?
Both can be operationally useful in my AO. I know my AO better than 99.5% of everyone who lives in it - and it is a BIG AO, from the entire 355/270 corridor/Montgomery County, Virginia just over the river, and all of DC. On either bike, E&E is a given.
I know Harley guys: But they're not for me.
Thoughts? What haven't I thought about? I'm on pretty new ground here, folks.
Cost isn't the biggest issue - yes, I could buy 3-250's for the price of one 600 - but I need to trust my equipment more than I need to worry about price.
Anyone who can weigh-in will be appreciated.
Kerodin
III
currently on 1340 v twin and always say more is better. cbr is a reliable platform but for reliability air cooled (buell)750+ might be my choice.Lerning curve for big bikes is remembering to decelerate befor turning, straight lines for acceleration, always scanning, never brake during a swerve, ask, not fatal just looked foolish;(
ReplyDeleteWould be honored to breake bread if you find it nessacery to go to "mile 1" for busness.
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I presently own a Harley Electraglide I thought I would be making more long trips on, but I am not. I am thinking of replacing the Hog with something new myself. I have ridden the CBR-1000 and can say it would be an awesome bike for day trips. I can imagine the 600 would be similar and a pretty bad ass bike. I myself am looking at a Kawasaki KLR 650. http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/product-specifications.aspx?scid=14&id=702 In my mind this bike seems big enough motor wise to make the long haul trips, and maneuverable enough to traverse some nontraditional terrain during a grid down situation. It is sporty enough to blend in without looking like a commando rolling down the street. If you are sold on the CBR though they seem solid from the little bit of riding I have done, but my 45+ year old spine doesn't agree.
ReplyDeleteGot an 05 Kawasaki Concours (1000cc) I'll let you have for less than the price of the 250. It will definitly get you to/from any place you'd like.
ReplyDeleteMight want to also check out the Kawasaki KLR650. I think it'll be more up your alley as far as an E&E bike. It has a high seat height, great for looking above traffic, will handle 70+ all day long, and will far and above be easier off the pavement in other locations you'll be heading E&E wise. Speaking from experience, they ARE the right bike for getting places no one else thinks about going. 8200mi in 23 days on one of them....they will do the job. Will you be able to? ;-)
Admittedly, 800mi+ days are painful, but they are doable. Find a pre-07 one for about $3K, better motor. After 07 they have a bit better suspension.
And when you're ready, I'll stud up the tires for some 365 riding. Yeah, been there, done that.
If you're just doing urban or short-range jaunts, K, the 250 would fill the bill fine. For multi-day trips, or long running on Interstates, you really will want the extra CCs. The available power on demand is comforting, too, even if you never have to use it (much).
ReplyDeleteI had a 450 Nighthawk, which split the difference nicely -- but gave up bikes for rifles for the Family's sake. Too easy to leave 'em without a Daddy, even if you're an expert rider. Lotsa moron cagers on the roads...
-dan
Kerodin,
ReplyDeleteIf you dont mind me pointing out another alternative and thats an enduro styled bike with a 600 cc engine (like a Kawasaki or BMW enduro) I come from the dirtbike world and I have ridden many streetbikes, both Harley and sport bikes.
Myself, I would prefer the option of going off road and getting away from the zombies. A streetbike would would "not" work as well as enduro on any rough terrain. If things pan out to be a worst case scenario, open highways will resemble "Highway 1" going to Baghdad in Kuwait in 1991, or any lonely road in A-stan.
600cc is a bare minimum for highway travel of any distance. The 250 cc is fine in town, but will burn up at highway speeds for extended periods, i.e. hours.
ReplyDeleteDual Purpose KLR, BMW or Suzuki DR or V-Strom.
ReplyDelete250 to small.
650 or better.
I do not like riding the sportbikes, well I do for the rush, but for any distance I need to drive from Chiropractor to Chiropractor.
With the Dual Purpose bikes I find the upright posture gives better visuals and handling in tight quarters...Like between non-moving cars.
Just my opinion now I am just an old guy..
shortly after getting a 250 you'll wish you had a 600. And a 250 will kill you just as fast as a 600. It's in the way you control yourself that makes the ride. If you cannot control the urge to open it and don't have the skills to do so then you don't need a bike. What ever you get take the time to learn it and ride it. I have ridden everything form a 250 Rebel to a Ducati 900 Monster to finally a Harley Heritage.
ReplyDeleteI am with you and dont know much about sport bikes but living in your neck of the woods ( i am near baltimore ) I am looking at an enduro Like anonymous said like the ability to use on the trail and street
ReplyDeleteK-
ReplyDeleteListen to Millerized, Highdesert,Madmedic and Dean et al. There are two things at play here, displacement and frame style. A 250 will be too small for anything over quick jaunts unless geared very tall due to vibration. The 'super bike' riding style will not serve you for trips nor in rough terrain. The sit up and beg riding position of a dual purpose will eclipse a 'track' frame hands down.
Please consider that a bike is extremely vulnerable. The farther from a 'trail' configuration you go, the easier it is to get in trouble with hazards, animals or barricades(wild turkey killed an acquaintance of mine). The Germans used wire strung between trees to remove our dispatch riders in France. See Wirecutter....
Check out "Long Way Round"/"Long Way Down" with Ian McKuen to compare rider styles to what you are used to from the track. Email me if you'd like more,
greenman227
I've never owned one, but Triumph bikes are supposed to be good quality.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/
Get someplace where you can put your hands and body on one. Some bikes will not allow anyone over 5 feet tall to fit comfortably, which can be an issue if you want to ride from DC to Chicago. Less CCs seems to tie to smaller bike for smaller riders.
ReplyDeleteGood leathers and a helmet are very important if you are new to this. Lot faster buying a new jacket than waiting to take the stitches out or picking the pebbles out of road rash.
Yamaha R6 would also be a consideration in the 600cc class. If you want to go for gold, an R1 will kill you deader than hell faster than you can blink. 0-100 in first gear as fast as you can hold on for. A guy I work with rode the hell out of an R1 for several years after he got out of the army. Without the wife and kids, he would be back on one as fast as he could hand over the cash.
I'm with all the folks suggesting a dual sport. I haven't ridden the newer cbr's, and I'm not sure but I think they are air cooled. For your area (city), air cooled is not ideal. When I lived in Virginia I had a gsx-r600. If it was above 90 degrees and traffic between the beach and the house was backed up, I had to pull off the road and let it cool down regularly. In an E&E type situation, it's not as much of a problem because your entire goal is to keep moving, but in non E&E roles traffic is your enemy. I believe most dual sport bikes are liquid cooled, so that helps with that issue.
ReplyDeleteI don't currently own any new bikes, but I ride a 1980 Honda CM400T (predecessor to the NightHawk). I have dual sport tires on it and have geared it down (replaced the chain and sprockets) so that I can make it from work to home over the mountains if I need to (and I have tested the route). These are very old and unmaintained township roads, a lot of washouts and such. Mine is no longer good for long distances (the bike will do it, but I'm not comfortable).
I would strongly suggest a dual sport, something along the lines of a KLR. I have many friends with those and they are very capable bikes and very comfortable (so I've heard, I'm not tall enough to ride a KLR with a 600cc motor easily). A big problem I have with dual sports is that they are too tall for me, but there are relatively inexpensive fixes for that (iirc, you're not much taller than me).
I would also suggest finding someplace to do some test rides before you buy. You may sit on one in the showroom and like it, but as soon as you spend an hour on it you could hate it.
Good luck.
I second the Concours. 1000 cc is plenty powerful and the c10 body and setup was virtually unchanged from 1986-2006. Excellent for riding in cold weather. Mine started no issue down to 10 degrees f. 7 gal tank easily goes 200 miles. Carry capacity is enormous with stock bags and rear rack. Cannot say enough good about them!
ReplyDeleteI second the concours. Plenty of power and carry capacity. Large tank for long trips. Runs good in cold too!
ReplyDeleteWell, that 700X *might* sorta-kinda do offroad if it had to -- it's still really a street bike, though. Honda's "true" dual-sport is the XR650L, but the bikes that get all the Dual-Sport Press are the Kawasaki KLR650 or the BMW GS machines (which are serious $ka-ching, but truly awesome).
ReplyDeleteJust compare the photo of that 700X to the XL650 (or the other two bikes) and you'll immediately see the differences in "off-road" capability.
-dan
Lots of good advice here little bikes are not for long distance or highway. The 600 sportbikes are uncomfortable unless you are small of stature. If many miles of off road are in the plans get a real dual purpose think high fenders and off road tires. If you want to put in highway miles I would look into a sport touring similar to the concours mentioned above. I never did figure out how to transport a rifle on a motorcycle without showing the whole world that you had it
ReplyDeleteNow you're talking. Stay away from beemers, they are way too expensive compared to what can break. Some of us bozos ride (almost) year 'round. Invest in chaps/vest/gloves/hand grips that are electrically heated via the bike's charging system. Blue tooth helmet systems keep you wired in, tunes too.
ReplyDeleteAs far as weapons goes I strap an AK 47 underfolder and dismounted mag into a folding chair bag. Right across the back part of the seat/across saddlebag. Optic goes in the tank bag. Not real fast on deployment, but Mr and Mrs Vanilla don't know the difference.
Always remember that 'cagers' hate bikes, especially when 'lane sharing'....
Final point-anything newer than 1982 has at least one computer, the newer ones several more. Mark's 400 above has one and it's plug and play replacement. But he's having a bitch of a time with replacement parts. The newer bikes will have sensors inside the engine, ALL subject to EMP. Mine? 1978/80/84 GS/GL/KZ/XJ 1000, street tires, Vetter fairing Frankenbike, points ignition. No computers, always fixing something....
greenman227
5.8 gallons for the KLR, 2.8 for the XR650. Bigger tanks are available for either. Biggest tank I've seen for the XR is 4.6G. Biggest KLR tank is 7 and change.
ReplyDeleteHonda is a bit more powerful (60ish v 45ish HP), but ergonomically painful for 700mi days. The KLR is doable, but again, it's not for the meek and mild at that distance. Can you do it on either? Yup, but you work up to it.
Neither bike is perfect for any intended purpose, and crossing over those purposes detracts a bit from the other. More dirt, less street or vice versa. They make great adventure tourers, loaded with bags and equip, they'll get you to/from just about everything less than full out dirt riding.
Put street tires on the KLR...you can hammer it hard enough to feel the chassis flex under it, and scraping pegs (at near 12" above the road at level) ain't all that hard. Scary? Yes. Hard? No.
The Concours will get traded for one in a heartbeat if the right deal comes along.
Yeah...I'm biased towards the KLR after owning one, and having it completely apart including the motor. The 87-06 models are stupid simple to maintain, and they are bulletproof solid once you replace the balancer tensioner (doohickey). They are my first and only choice for a true dual sport ride. (the KLR250 for short range is second)
I have no experience or knowledge of the NC700X.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, I'll still give you my opinion...
While not a true dual sport, I think that would suit your purposes fairly well. You live in a city/suburb surrounded by cities and suburbs, so even if you go "oof road", you'll most likely only be cutting over yards and such. I don't imagine you'll be hitting any real off road trails with it, and it looks like it'll be good for that. If you lived more out in the country, you would, at a minimum, want to throw some knobby tires on it to get more traction off road (it will affect your higher speed travel, but will make the bike much more manageable off road). The 400 I referenced above has knobby dual sport tires. It will still run at 70 mph, but there's a loud hum that gets louder with speed. It is also not as stable cornering at speed with the knobby's.
You have to consider your area, but I think that NC700X should be good for you. I would still recommend you get a test drive before you buy. And after you buy it, you should really go test the alternate routes you're thinking about, and then test the bike and yourself on stuff worse than you could reasonably expect to encounter. If you can handle the really rough stuff, the "easy" stuff will be, well... easy. It's also a very good way to increase your skills. I take all of my vehicles off road as often as I can. Sure, it's good fun, but it also makes me a better driver by becoming intimitely familiar with my vehicle.
And just for kicks, here's a video of one of the places I've taken my little 400 (that trail is actually a lot worse than it looks in the video... hard to see depth/size in the video):
http://youtu.be/pbCinrU6pSg
Thanks for all the comments and emails.
ReplyDeleteSomeone mentioned the sportbikes posture is best suited for smaller-built guys: That's me. I'm about 5'7 ish.
One of the other reason I prefer the low profile posture - smaller target if I am running away from someone. Though I'm not fond of a gas tank under my belly or between my legs. ;)
My use will primarily be local, quick recon trips and such. If I have to go operational, it may or may not be the best for every op. "Off-road" around here, as Mark notes, involves running through someones fine-trimmed lawn most of the time, or cutting through parking lots.
For the ocassional longer trip - I'll probably suffer the back issues many of you mentioned.
I know I want a 600 or larger when I get to my final bike, whatever style that is - do you guys recommend starting right at the 600, or start smaller with a 250 or 400? As noted, I think I can kill myself just as quickly on a 250 if I am stupid as on a 600. Is it worth taking the step approach?
K
It's not. Get the 600. Save time and frustration. You'll evn find a 600 small. Get a 750-1000.
ReplyDeleteIf your looking for a post-event bike, get the XR. Its reliable as a hammer, needs little upkeep, is as good a dual sport as you can getbfor the money an can run on fuel as crappy as Mexican gas. 700 mile days could be unrealistic if the SHTF and you might want to reconsider highway travel. Air cooled is not the liability that others may claim. If your a bike novice, you might consider a Suzuki DR400 as an easier way to get started.
ReplyDelete