Sam Webb runs the Communist Party USA.
Why do we tolerate this idiot in America? Why do we tolerate the lesser shades of grey; Socialists, Liberals, and other Enemies of Liberty?
There are factions within our republic that seek secession as a solution to our current troubles.
This is a short-sighted goal that if achieved will end in absolute tyranny across the continent.
Consider: A group of States dismiss the Constitution and the Union and they exhort the Founding Principles as outlined by Jefferson. The remaining States go the way of California and Socialism.
Anyone with their eyes open understands that Socialism is a transitional stage leading to Communism.
A Balkanized North America is an absolute defeat for personal Liberty. A Balkanized America surrenders to the Enemies of Liberty a beachhead whence they will conduct operations to further their ultimate goal, which is world domination.
Allowing people like Nancy Pelosi and your Liberal neighbor to have free reign on your border is the same as giving those very same States, those chunks of real estate, to Mao, Mo & Stalin.
Do you want those people living on your border? Do you want China making a pact with the People's Republic of California and docking the Chinese Fleet in San Diego? Do you really want New York making treaties with Russia and permitting Russian boots on the ground and buying Russian military hardware to defend themselves from the more Liberty-minded folks in Virginia?
The premise that secession in North America will end well for Liberty is absolute folly.
All one does with secession is permit the Enemies of Liberty into your back yard.
Does anyone really think an independent Texas has a prayer against Chinese & Russian allied California & New York? Does anyone really think the Liberals who take residence behind the wall in a Socialist California and New York will ever rest until their brothers and sisters in Texas and Alaska and Florida are set Free?
Would you really sit by in your Free Texas and let Socialists/Communists have free reign in Louisiana? You know that once the Tyrants are strong enough they will begin slaughtering their own citizens for the security of the State. Would you be able to let that happen in Oklahoma?
America works because North America has generally been a unified people with shared morality. The breakdowns in our society today are the result of tolerating people who do not share our morality. I have no problem with a Communist or a Muslim living next door to me...so long as they STFU and never make a single move to change America to their world view.
A Balkanized America is a major goal of the Enemies of Liberty.
The answer is not to retreat into Liberty-minded Texas and Virginia while permitting Tyranny-minded folks to have Maryland and New York.
Texas is only as prosperous as it is today because it has Maryland as an ally.
The answer is to rid our shores of the tyranny-minded.
Let them leave, make them leave, and if they resist deportation, treat them like the cancer they are to Liberty...
Kerodin
III
Wait. What? These shit-sacks run your government now!!! I would much rather have a confederacy whereby they are truly free to run their polities, states, cities whatever as an experiment in Communism/Fascism because they already are running that experiment at the National level. I could then live among like minded individuals that live under whatever form of government or no government we deem proper. To be free to act and live a truly free life and not live under a set of 'privileges'.
ReplyDeleteIf there was true choice we would have freedom. If you could opt in and out of government 'service' within a given geographic area we would have freedom and a competitive landscape which would prove quickly which systems worked and which would not.
As it is now we have leaches bringing down the host of freedom and private property by causing the problems and then stepping in to propose solutions. We are fucked.
You are married to these assholes with no chance at divorce. None.
If there was a shot at secession the exact opposite that you propose would happen. They wouldn't gain a foothold and then expand. Without a gun to force you to live under their experiment and rob you blind on a daily basis, they would wither and die on the vine. Without a Berlin Wall to keep you from just saying 'fuckit I'm moving to Montana.' they would fail in short order.
It is not you that should fear secession but them. They need your blood to live. You do not need theirs.
Anon: If every Liberty-loving Patriot moved to Montana (and they might actually have enough room to fit us all in Montana) then we surrender the rest of the State or Continent to the Left.
ReplyDeleteThe Left wants world domination...they will NEVER leave you alone or let you live. Your ideas and ideals are a direct threat to their intent.
So, once they have us all bottled up in Montana, or Texas, or even Montana and Texas, they simply eradicate us. They can wage attrition wars by shutting down necessary supplies, they can ring the border with Russian and Chinese tanks and boots, they have every advantage.
Running from the enemy is the worst mistake we could make.
You may live happily to the end of your natural life in such a state, but your children would not. It would take less than a generation to mop-up the remnanats if we yield to them the ground and resources of the continent.
Better to make them leave, than to surrender what is ours.
Secession is surrender and suicide.
Kerodin
III
Interesting topic. 150 years go a few states believed that the ONLY way to preserve their personal liberties as outlined in the Constitution was succession. They believed that the laws of the "valid" government became null and void when those laws crossed over the line into tyranny. They lost that fight. They were not allowed to leave the union. One wonders what might have been had they either won that struggle or were allowed to form a new union.
ReplyDeleteSo, by the preservation of the union, we drifted further down the road to disregarding the ideas that created the union in the first place. Lincoln, Wilson, FDR...all Tyrants by a different name.
The Second Revolution (aka Civil War) is the ultimate example that the Masters will never settle for secession. Now will they ever permit Patriots to retreat to a resource-rich chunk of the continent.
ReplyDeleteThe better remedy is to expel the Enemies of Liberty from our midst.
If rats invaded your home and infested your childrens bedrooms, would you meekly retreat and live in your shed, hoping the rats would leave you alone?
It is not in the nature of rats, or Enemies of Liberty, to go away.
Better to stand your ground and eradicate the rats and keep your home.
Kerodin
III
Why would you think a unified patriotic Western U.S. couldn't defeat a China backed Kalifornia? I am not advocating balkanization but there is no reason to automatically believe that in a conflict between the socialist Upper Northeast and the Republic of the Midwest (To make up two combatants) that the Northeast would prevail.
ReplyDeleteNo matter how ideological the residents of Kalifornia are let them live for a year under military "allied" occupation by the Chinese and see how long that country stays stable. All while fighting an incursion into the Sovereign nation of NewTexaHoma which is receiving military aid from the newly freed, unified and staunchly democratic Germany and is also fielding free legions of volunteers out of the former states of Arkansas and Missouri.
Many would die but resources, resolve and Freedom would prevail.
Pioneer: What evidence is there that we'd be stronger after being divided?
ReplyDeleteIf we can't win today, when it is easy and every Patriot in Texas has full access to ammo, food, supplies from around the world (because all ports are open and willing to ship to Texas), how can it possibly get easier when a Patriotic middle-of-the-country is shut off from seaports, air traffic is restricted, and borders are bulging with Chinese and Russian "Peacekeepers"?
Legions of volunteers? You have far more faith in your Countrymen than do I. The legions are the FSA, not us.
Germany? There is not one single nation on the planet that would defy Russia, China and Leftist USA to supply a Patriotic American force.
If we can't win now, we can't win.
Kerodin
III
Secession, whether for good or ill, is part of the compact of the Constitution that the ratifiers believed they were getting, the War of Northern Agression notwithstanding.
ReplyDeleteThe 13 states stood well with each other when the central government was weak and only financed enough to do what was enumerated: protect the borders, deliver the mail, and keep the post roads open (simplistic, but accurate). Our troubles have only gotten progressively worse as we've tried to legislate the challenges of life away so that our posterity has a life in utopia.
Bringing this forward to present time, the notion that secession could not be allowed by a State that chose to be liberty minded or the antithesis is tyranny in and of itself. Liberty cannot be mandated, just as servitude cannot be mandated.
The great idea would be to restore Constitutionally limited government first, and then deal with subsequent issues such as common interest defense, whether against invasion or infiltration. While I despise communists and any sort of collectivist ideology, for that matter, I also believe in the light of freedom, and that light will burn brightly, so long as we follow the Constitutional principles signed into being by the ratifiers. It is my opinion the reason we are at the place we are today is because those who came before us as well as many of us today, failed to stand and say, "NO!" to the collectivist seduction of "easy money, easy life, easy everything" that comes from appropriating money that is not theirs to give to other people, no matter how chivalrous the cause may seem. I'd suggest a reading of David Crockett's "Not Yours to Give" to explain it much more eloquently.
Yes, we kill the rats in our home (or, if they're willing to leave, we let them leave). We take things one step at a time and deal with them well, and then move on.
Right now, I'd say that the first priority is to reestablish Constitutional government, above all other goals.
Thanks for this very good discussion.
Trainer: I think if we get back to Constitutional limits the issue of secession will go away. The Founders reserved the Right of secession as a last resort in case the FedGov got too overbearing, which is the case today.
ReplyDeleteBut we'll never reach the goal of Constitutional respect so long as we tolerate the Liberals/Socialists/Communists among us who undermine the very premise of Liberty by corrupting the morality of the populace and building the FSA.
Those folks need to go, or at the very least STFU and stop trying to change the republic from her Constitutional and Founding ideals.
We have Socialist neighbors to our north and south. Anyone in America who wants to live in a Socialist State is free to leave, but they are not free to change the republic and undermine basic innate Rights...even in the name of State Sovereignty.
Thanks to all for taking up this discussion.
Kerodin
III
Yes, excellent discussion.
ReplyDeleteTrainer, well said.
I've always felt that secessionists could be turned if our constitutional principles were restored.
Anarchists? Not so much.
If we do in fact get to go time, I only want to take out the trash once. If you're not down for the Republic, find another place to live or we're gonna have to fight it out.
I liken it to a house infested with vipers. I remove the rattlesnakes but I leave the copperheads. Just doesn't make sense.
I think perhaps you are not open enough to cause and effect changing directions and attitudes. Using Germany was simply a placeholder but point in fact Germany has taken on Russia, as you well know, Not once, not even three or four times.
ReplyDeleteLegions (a word which is given to variable sizes of troops the actual number being negotiable) have in fact been formed from just about every local. Could any of us form a legion in say Arkansas today? NO. But let a few things change and....
My point is you seem to think that a dramatic political change will end there and not bring with it a change in the balance of power around the world, regionally and/or locally. Providing your analysis of Chinese and Russian military power in todays world is not debatable anyway.
Hard times breed hard men and hard societies and more importantly hard times also reduces the excess available for liberal ideology. Only the current atmosphere of "Good men doing nothing" allows the socialist, communist etc you speak of to even be a threat. Without the productive free will patriots no society could afford the others.
Alan: I'm right there with you. We'll only get one shot at this, we'd better make it count.
ReplyDeletePioneer: To that point, I agree that stress will bring a percentage of people off the benches, and some will be up to the task. But they will be working to alleviate the pain, rather than working for ideological reasons.
Until we fix the underlying moral decay, we're f'd. We simply can't fix stupid, so we must be rid of the stupid. The people who prefer the FSA mentality greatly outnumber folks who are productive, and they must be dismissed from our midst.
Dramatic political change is only possible once the minority of good men stop doing nothing, and hold the FSA and their Masters accountable.
As I look across our community, the number of good men who will actually lead the charge is very, very small. In fact, when the first one chooses to step off the porch, I'd bet dollars to donuts he'll die alone.
If we will not come to his aid, why would any foreign entity risk the teeth and maw of Russia or China? Those are the two powers that most want the resources of the continent. Not one nation on Earth will come to our aid.
Kerodin
III
Great post. I have to ask...how do you keep from getting frustrated with the "people just don't get it" factor? It seems there are so many reasons why Americans will just keep backing up. Do people not look at maps anymore? Do they not realize there is NO PLACE to go, to get away from other people who want to tell you what to do. The thought of retreating to one area of our country and letting the jackals to the rest, just pisses me off. Do these people who want to do that actually think letting the libs and/or Chinese and Russians have a part of our country will appease them and they won't want the rest? Sigh...Good God, I have to quit reading this stuff so early in morning or I'm going to have to start putting some Johnny Walker Red in my tea to keep my blood pressure down. All I can say is:
ReplyDeleteResist.
Ask no quarter, give no quarter.
Pass the Ammo.
Kerodin The notion of expulsion would have to take into consideration how thoroughly the thought pattern of collectivism and gov force against citizens has taken root. You literally would have to take down everyone in the media, the education establishment the Fed, state and municipal governments down to dog catcher + the FSA. I don't think that is possible even if they instigated a civil war first. And once it gets going the chances are very high that it simply turns into a French revolution or Che inspired revolution with different factions using extreme violence.
ReplyDeleteThe scenario of secession could play out slowly as it is now with states passing bills to allow for their printing of gold backed currency or disavowing payment of tax receipts to DC and or taking orders and or handouts from DC.
More importantly it would be the legitimization of 'individual' secession away from the need for a collectivized state.
If we are extremely honest with ourselves we could also look the creation of the centralized Federal government under the Constitution with an eye toward the writings of the Anti-Federalists and say that the what we have today is a natural result of the creation of such an entity and that reverting back to some previous understanding of Constitutional limited government ended with Lincoln or even the Whiskey Rebellion.
If and this is a big if - secession was tried and various polities tried to compete against one another on the basis of allowing true freedom and respect for private property you would have mini Hong Kongs (pre chicom) all over the place and other states following suite to compete.
Miss Violet: It gets old. I've only been running the blog and posting columns for about 16 months now, and I am amazed that within our own community people continue to try to re-invent the wheel.
ReplyDeleteHow many more essays do we need about the meaning of 2A? How many more years must we invest in detailed disection of every Washington plot, just to understand that Washington is corrupt?
That is all avoidance behavior.
It is time for solutions to be put into action, and folks who don't understand the problem at this point need to learn as we go.
The last free patches of ground on Earth are beneath the feet of Patriots. Yielding the city and running to the mountains (or another country) in search of a place that FedGov & Enemies of Liberty will "...just leave us alone..." is surrender and defeat.
But no one is willing to be the first off the porch. Until that fact changes, OpFor will continue to tighten the noose every day until there is no realistic chance of victory.
Stay safe.
Kerodin
III
Anon: Have you ever watched the mass migrations of people in war zones? It only takes one lion to start the herd on a stampede.
ReplyDeleteYes, I do understand how many people fit into the category of FSA and Enemies of Liberty, but the amount of work that needs to be done is no excuse for avoiding the work. There will be more of them tomorrow, so we really should get started sooner than later.
Whether Restoration devolves into something like the French Revolution is their choice, not Patriots. I do not know of a single Patriot who would choose to kill on a wholesale level. But they must STFU, leave, or face Section III Article III.
Secession is suicide. Would you permit an avowed Communist to live in a tent on your front lawn? In your basement? Guest bedroom? You know he will not be happy until he has full run of the house, refrigerator, and property, because that is what a Communist does.
No Quarter.
Kerodin
III
A week or so back you posted a link to this article at TL's place where he suggested a PatriotCON.
ReplyDeleteYou know the founders were pretty big on getting together. I still look to their example in many things, including the need to clarify goals and expand the circle of knowledge.
I do see the downsides too. It's interesting: Brietbart has released the #OWS archives. Electronic stuff is pretty easy to infiltrate too.
I think TL's suggestion of PatriotCon was a good one.
ReplyDeleteAnon: I agree, I think a PatriotCon is a great idea, though we don't have a lot of time to wait.
ReplyDeleteThe logistical problem is significant, however.
Most of us are responsible folks who have to work, and many in our community simply don't have the disposable income to get to a central point and spend a few days.
Even I had an intrusion recently. I was packed and ready to go to Atlanta for the RTC about 2 months ago, rental car in the driveway, and I had to cancel and drive north instead. That sucked.
I am not as worried about FedGov attending as are many. They already know who we are...
If it gels, I'd be proud to attend.
Kerodin
III
Jackson: I agree. The Founders went through what we are experiencing now. They have given us the blueprint for victory.
ReplyDeleteNow we simply need to get the work done.
Kerodin
III