I live in a Blue State. A very blue state. Maryland.
I am very fond of my state. We have mountains, and we have Chesapeake Bay. I'm a water guy. A weekend of fishing, boating, crabbing & swimming the bay is hard to beat.
I am outnumbered by at least 10:1 by other Marylanders who prefer the Marxist approach to life.
Consider: We hash our way through the next Revolution and Constitutionalists win. That means that any state that doesn't like the Union may leave. Here's my problem with that: Maryland would stay Blue and would vote for all sorts of things that a Constitutionalist simply finds repugnant - like 2A. Believe me, Maryland would ban everything. They'd make TSA look like Jihadists.
Yet, the Constitution articulates that my Rights to 2A are innate, Natural Rights that may not be abridged by any Government.
What is a Patriotic lad to do when he wants to live in a state filled with hippies, tree-huggers & Marxists who wants to keep one of Mr. Browning's masterpieces on or near his person? Do you think Maryland has the Right to ban firearms if they leave the Union?
Sure, I could just leave Maryland...but that's not the point. I like it here. And, I want my innate Rights.
I see only 1 solution: All non-Constitutionalists must leave, or at least leave me alone when it comes to Natural Rights.
What about those of you who live in Blue States and don't want to leave if they secede? Do you feel that the bare minimum of every State must be the Bill of Rights? Do you keep fighting until you run out all the Blue idiots, or do you comply?
And what about you folks who secede in a Red State. Your state loves 2A and gives it the respect articulated in the Bill of Rights. But what do you do when you want to come and go fishing with me in the Chesapeake...don't you think you remain entitled to your Constitutionally articulated 2A, even if Maryland has seceded and outlawed 2A?
I think secession is the Right of every State, obviously. But...I also maintain that even if a Blue State secedes, they must comply with the Bill of Rights as written and ratified, as a matter of Natural Law.
Am I wrong?
Kerodin
III
I'm conflicted on that, Sam. Individual rights should supersede any governmental regulations or legislation. Yet, it feels right to think that a state should be able to create its own government, when the one it is suffering under leads to a "train of abuses" that cause it to wish to separate and form a new government.
ReplyDeleteThe correct answer would be that they must respect individual rights. The realistic answer would be that if they secede and chose a Marxist government, that would be their right. Insisting on staying there would mean having to be willing to fight for your rights once again. A worthy fight, but if it is possible to go where your rights will indeed be respected - and there is such a place (as there isn't right now) - it would seem to be more sensible to move.
There is a lot of beautiful coastline both East and West. If Oregon or Washington or Far Northern California were to secede and guarantee to respect the Constitution and individual rights, it would beat the hell out of fighting and possibly dying just to stay in Maryland. Look up the "State of Jefferson" (http://www.jeffersonstate.com/). The crabbing is good in Oregon.
That's part of the problem with democracy...the majority can be, and often is, wrong.
ReplyDeleteA state that secedes could theoretically be wholly marxist, if they won or were granted the right of secession.
If a state seceded, if would likely not allow itself to be bound to a part of the old system that it disagreed with. Even if that part was the Bill of Rights. Or natural law.
Move to the Eastern Shore of Maryland brother, specifically Dorchester County.
ReplyDeleteIf the Constituionalists win, allowing a State to secede would be required if restoring the Constituiton to original intent.
ReplyDeleteSelf-Determination based upon the 'consent of the governed', who, in order to enjoy the benefits of properly formed and executed government, surrender a portion of their ability to exercise their rights.
If I live in a "Blue" state, and it chooses to secede and become its own Nation/State with its own legal structure (no matter how different), it is only logical that if I cannot abide the new form of government that I leave for a place that I can.
If that state chose outright Marxism/Globalism, it would not nullify my natural rights, but would severely infringe on my ability to exercise them. Time to pack up and leave, especially when outnumbered 10 to 1 and you are unsure that the 10% would not capitulate.
Hard scenario to consider, but nevertheless, walking the talk on self-determination means following it through even when one finds themself on the short end of the stick.
I can relate....I'm in a blue state, too. Really blue. However, if my state chose to seced and become marxist/globalist, I'd be packing and leaving, and taking as many of the 10% left with me for security enroute....
But that's me.
I think if they leave and decide that they aren't going to respect the human right of self defense that you should come to Tennessee or another red state. Let them stay in the stew they are cooking.
ReplyDeleteMarxists are like drug addicts. They are psychologically unable to stop doing what they are doing until it hurts enough that there are no other choices (or until it kills them, which is usually the way it goes for those addicted to the state).
As a red-stater, I'd love to trade you for a couple of our "productive" liberals (such as Tim Wise, Al Gore, and most of Memphis). I know you wouldn't want to leave at their insistence and I respect that. Do remember, though, that men like you would be a blessing here. Besides, after ten years of Marxism or so, Maryland would be a cheap tourist destination for those of us in the free lands.
There are few blue states out there that can secede even if they want to. Certainly blue states send on average more money in tax dollars to Washington than red ones but if they change the game they will starve. Literally and figuratively.
ReplyDeleteThe few exceptions that have the natural and agricultural capacity to go independent will not be blue very long if left to their own devices. States like Iowa, Oregon, Wisconsin and even Illinois are ruled by out of touch cities that can effect the vote but will begin to fail fast without the backing of the federal government. After this last Summer and voting I am not sure you can count Wisconsin as entirely blue anyway.
Once the succession ball begins rolling the state borders for red and blue will begin to fade and the final line is anyone's guess. You may find once the gloves are off Maryland has some pretty red spots here and there.
In the short term, I've got everything I need in Texas, and you're welcome here.
ReplyDeleteIn the long term, I see it as an American's duty to spread freedom across the world. Spreading it across the continent is a good start.
Phelps-
ReplyDeleteThe Constitution would disagree with you on that "spreading freedom" thingy.
America has no such "duty".
AP
There are both philosophical and practical aspects to your conundrum.
ReplyDeleteOn the philosophical front, I think you give too much credit to 'natural rights' and 'natural law'. Ultimately 'naturual rights' are just another philosphical ideal invented by some group. They may be honored in some places and times, but they are no more true than any other philosophical construct. To many millions "there is no God but Allah and all laws come from the Koran" trumps natural law.
No philosophical construct has any more power than men with guns willing to enforce it give it. There is no strong group of men with guns currently supporting your natural rights, so you don't have them (except in a philosophical sense).
It's absurd to expect that a bunch of statists are going to support your individual rights either now or in the future.
If secession occured Blue States would, indeed, become more Blue. And ultimately they would have a right to. Who says a seceding state has to continue to follow any part of the Constitution? That would only be a partial secession then, really.
In practice if the states break off their might be wars between them, but it will be over things that matter like water rights, not forcing Marylanders to honor Texas CCW permits.
If you want to live in a place where "Natural Law" is given high value you will have to create such a place. Perhaps the pre-Civil War USA was such a place, but the modern USA, even in the reddest state is not.
But you will probably have to violate a lot of peoples natural rights to bring such a place into existence.
I've always been disapointed that the Free State Wyoming project didn't make more progress. If there are not 100,000 people willing to move to Wyoming to vote liberty into existence what are the chances that we will prevail by more costly means? Low, I'd say.
That maps gonna look real different after 2012 I suspect. Sometimes the Red/Blue thing is overused. The original Red/Blue was the USA Today map showing Bush's victory on a county by county basis. The point that map brought forward is that the only places that voted for Socialism were pretty much big cities.
So I agree with whoever above said the state lines might not be that important in a real breakdown. The state lines are also mearly anachronisms.
In reality, the states aren't really blue/red so much as cities are. If you look at data sorted that way, the blue areas are highly dense populations, for the most part. Not to hog your blog, but I found this interesting data and wrote about it last February. Red vs. blue turns into small town vs. big city.
ReplyDeleteAs PioneerPreppy says, they literally can't survive secession. They will starve - after they've eaten the slow moving people.
Graybeard, you are 100% right - the real situation is in better focus when looking at Red/Blue at the county level. That inescapable truth is where the ugliest clashes of Restoration will occur, when Blue marches outward from their strongholds into Red territory, as they will be forced to do for any chance at survival.
ReplyDeleteMy sincere thanks to all of you who have joined this discussion.
Stay safe.
Kerodin
III
Greybeard said what I was going to say, Great comment Grey.
ReplyDeleteDennis
III
Texas